Making time for violin in a busy season of life| Student Stories: Carly
This blog post accompanies Violin Class Podcast Episode 45. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Advice from an adult violin student
This week, I’m sharing an interview with my private student, Carly. Carly started the violin in her late 20s and has made fast progress in the 2 years that we have been working together.
She discusses how she’s been able to progress without having a ton of time to practice— in addition to learning violin, Carly is busy raising 4 young children under the age of 7.
I can attest that Carly is an excellent at practicer, which has been the key to her success so far. So, whether you are a parent or not, you’ll hear how it really is quality over quantity when it comes to violin practice and how you can make the most of limited time.
She also shares:
Why she felt drawn to start the violin
Her story in starting the instrument during life circumstances where most people would have put it down
How she practices with little kids around, and creates a fun experience sharing music with her entire family
Her advice for practicing efficiently when time is limited
How she keeps the joy in practicing and her mindset for avoiding burnout and frustration
Meet my violin student, Carly
Started violin: Summer 2022
From: Minnesota
Occupation: Homeschooling mom of 4
Other hobbies: Hiking, painting, writing, and reading with her kids
More Student Stories
This is the 6th episode of Student Stories, where my private violin students share their advice and experiences learning the violin. You can listen to the others here:
Making violin a meaningful part of your life | Student stories: Lisa
Advice from an adult violin student | Student stories: Julia
What learning violin as an adult is REALLY like | Student stories: Andres
Making time for violin practice as a busy person | Student stories: Olivia
From beginner violinist to playing in a band | Student Stories: Jamie
Transcript
The transcript to this episode is created by AI, so please excuse any errors.
Carly: We got there and they were like, sorry, you're going to be here for a while. So from that day, I didn't leave the hospital for six weeks till I had my baby. And then I told my husband, like, Go home, pack, me, this, this, this.
And I was like, music stand, violin, this Suzuki book. Like, do not forget.
Julia: This week, I have a very special guest joining me. Carly is one of my private violin students. And she has graciously accepted my invitation to share her story of the circumstances in which she. I started the violin and how she has managed to make such consistent progress in a short amount of time with the limited amount of. practice time that she has. Because in addition to learning the violin, she is raising four young children. And as any parent knows, that is no small feat.
As you'll hear, the circumstances in which Carly began, the violin were not ideal. And I think that most people, myself included would have put it down for a time. During this period of life. But instead once Carly decided that she wanted to start learning , this instrument. She really dove in. Has figured out how to make it a consistent part of her life despite being, , incredibly busy as I can imagine with four little ones And I find it hard enough to find practice time with one toddler and she has several. So I'm so glad that she's coming on here to share her advice when it comes to practicing efficiently and making the most of limited time.
I've been working with Carly for just under two years now. And I really think like all of the students that I feature in my students' stories, she's an example of an excellent violin student. She's very meticulous when it comes to violin.
And , she's really good at analyzing her own playing and figuring out exactly what she needs to practice. This is a very important skill. And one that I want all of my students to be good at, because that's really key when it comes to progressing at this instrument. And she's been able to make a fast and consistent progress with her limited time. When I was growing up and especially going into my upper school, years of learning violin, I had hours and hours where all I was doing was practicing. And looking back, I don't think I was necessarily super productive during that time.
Julia: I was certainly putting in the hours, with a little bit more planning or if I had had more constraints on my time, I could have gotten a lot more done. In less time, which is exactly what Carly is so good at.
So whether you're a parent or not, you're going to find inspiration and a lot of practical advice for making the most of your time and the Carly really shows us that if there's a will, there's a way, and I hope you enjoy this interview as much as I did.
/ But before we get into our discussion. Hello, and welcome to violin class. If you're joining me for the first time.
My name is Julia. I'm a violinist and violin teacher. And on this podcast I share. Advice for anyone who's learning the violin as an adult.
I specialize in teaching violin to adult learners. And this is the sixth. Episode of my series called student stories, where I feature the voices and stories of my own private students. These are often my most popular episodes. The ones that I get the most emails about, because I think there's a lot to learn from those who are in your shoes or maybe just a few years ahead. If you enjoyed this episode , please leave a rating or review that really helps me to grow the show. And if you resonated with any parts of this story, if you have anything to add or share, I would love to hear from me. You can email me@violinclasspodatgmail.com. Or send me a DM on Instagram at violin class co. Without further ado, let's get into my discussion with Carly.
Julia: Carly, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. you have so much advice to share, especially about time management. , you've really had a remarkable situation when it comes to where you started. the instrument, and you make so much regular progress. So I was wondering if you could introduce yourself, and how you got into starting violin.
Carly: Okay, well, I'm Carly. I'm 28 and have four kids, so started having kids when I was pretty young. I think my interest in violin started After I had my third baby, actually, he was premature, and I , he was in the hospital for, I think, three weeks. And during those three weeks, I was so stressed and worried about my baby. I like to listen to podcasts.
So I was trying to listen to podcasts and it just was not cutting it. It was so distracting, but then I tried like listening to peaceful piano music. And, it just wasn't working to calm me down. I just couldn't calm down my thoughts. So then finally Spotify was just spitting me out these violin concertos all of a sudden from this piano music.
And I was just hooked. It was like trying to remember what the first ones were. Maybe Mendelssohn, and maybe Brooke. Does that ring a bell?
Julia: Absolutely, yeah. Two major violin concertos.
Carly: Yeah, so I was like listening to those just in between because you'd go visit your baby. every feeding and stay there for a while, but you weren't at the hospital whole time.
I didn't have a room in the hospital or anything. And I was away from my family too. So it was just me waiting for him to be released from the hospital. So I'd listen to those tons and something about like the complexity of those violin concertos made it so I really couldn't think about anything else when those were playing.
There was so many different parts and it was, it was all new. Like I've heard classical music, but those were, With the solo violin in there was just like a whole new level. And I love listening to, all the parts and how they work together. And I started thinking like, how could a composer be so smart to put this all together and have it all line up perfectly and be like such a unique thing.
Like how could one person think of all of that? So that was kind of the beginning. And then the whole time between my kids, I was listening. I couldn't stop listening to violin music. And I started thinking how, what would it feel like to be able to play something like that? Like these people just like shredding on those things.
How would it feel to like, that must feel so cool. And I was , kind of almost thinking like in another life I could have done that. Like if I was a kid and learned it. And then it hit me that I'm in my 20s. I have a lot of life left. I could totally learn something like that if I wanted to.
And then every once in a while I'd have these thoughts like, okay, I'm 26 at the time. If I started now in 10 years, I'd be 10 years of experience. Like, I feel like people playing for 10 years are pretty decent at something, you know? Yes. And I just kept having thoughts like that.
Kind of like, the best day to plant the tree was 20 years ago, but the next best time is today. That kind of thing. I kept like, almost having this guilt that. I clearly had an interest, but wasn't starting it and wasn't acting on it. And then one day I told my husband, I was like, Oh, it's almost bugging me every day that I'm not just doing this thing that I think is cool.
And he's like the most proactive person ever. And he's like, let's go buy one, go on Facebook marketplace. And we pretty much bought like the first one we found. That's awesome. Like some high school student that didn't play anymore. Yeah. And bought a cheap one. That's actually funny. Cause I listened to your podcast after that and it was like, don't just buy like a really cheap violin.
And I was like, ah, I just did
Julia: buy what you can buy.
Carly: That's real. And then I kept listening and then you were like, well, you can play it until you're playing like outgrows the instrument. I'm like, cool. I can't play it. So I'm still good.
Then I got pregnant with my fourth. baby soon after that. And then, well, it was before I bought the violin, actually, that I got pregnant. And I was like, thinking, okay, I've had two premature babies before this. It's likely I'll have another one. We still haven't figured out why I have premature babies.
And I thought it could be like a little too much exercise. I think pregnancy kind of stresses me out and I would kind of like, run around or do like cardio and stuff. I was kind of crazy when I was pregnant, so I was like, we'll slow it down this time and see if it helps. But I needed a hobby that helped me deal with stress that was more, that I could do sitting or do without it being like hiking or something.
So then that's kind of where it was born was like, well, this is a perfect thing. And you can play it sitting. And it's something to focus on and help me, just focus on something other than, the trials of pregnancy. Yeah, then I found you, and that's exactly what my email told you the first one, was like, I need something sitting in case I end up on bed rest.
And then I did end up on bed rest with my fourth baby, so it was like, really crazy that I almost foresaw that.
Julia: To give a little bit of context, I remember very clearly getting that email because it was just a lot of coincidences.
I think you were 18 weeks pregnant. I was 16 weeks pregnant. It's the first time I've ever had a student contact me pregnant, for whatever reason. . You talked about bed rest. I had been on bed rest until just a couple weeks before that.
So, although our situations were very different, you already had other kids. And, you know, we'll, we'll get into it after, but Ending up in the hospital away from family, all of that was, I cannot imagine the amount of stress and anxiety and all of the things that come with being in that situation.
And I was just so, In awe, really, that you were able to start something and just kind of commit to it in the way that you did, and we'll get into that, that story in a bit. But, you know, I found bed rest to be so difficult mentally, and all I did was just, like, watch TV and, like, feel bad for, for those six or eight weeks that I was just there. I just was so amazed that you were, to just kind of dive in. And once you started, you never stopped, except for when you like had to, had to.
You played all the way through the end of your pregnancy and then very quickly with. A brand new baby. And again, having gone through that our children are very close in age. I wouldn't have been able to do it, you know, with the lack of all of that.
/So you have so much advice to share for those of you who are listening, who have gone through trials or are going through trials, and how kind of violin can still fit within that.
/So let's maybe continue through your story once you had started. And I remember this was two summers ago and we had to make certain adjustments so that you could stay seated during, that time that you had to take it easy.
How did the rest of your pregnancy go and then where did violin fit into that for you?
Carly: I just took it really easy the whole pregnancy because I was, I kind of had this guilt, like, okay, I've gone premature twice.
It's probably something I'm doing. So I was like, okay, I'm going to cut out anything that people saying not to do. So I drank like a gallon of water a day. So I'm not dehydrated. And I was sitting all the time, but yeah, despite all that at 27 weeks pregnant, my water broke. And I went in with the doctor and was like, I don't really know what's happening.
That morning I told my husband, this is like the smoothest pregnancy we've had. I'm sure I'm just imagining something's wrong. But, yeah, then they tested it and found out my water broke and immediately it was like, drive two hours away, go to this hospital, and then they'll check you out further and see what's next. The whole way there, I was telling my husband like, you know what, I feel really good about this. We're going to go there and they're probably going to send me home. Like, I still feel fine. And then they, we got there and my husband was kind of like, I've heard people have to go on bed rest until they have the baby if their water's broken.
And I was like, no, I just, I'm not feeling it. I don't think that's happening. But yeah, we got there and they were like, sorry, you're going to be here for a while. So from that day, I didn't leave the hospital for six weeks till I had my baby. And, um, it's funny because then I told my husband, like, Go home, pack, me, this, this, this.
Like, I had to coach him all the clothes I wanted that fit. I had to tell him which ones fit, which ones didn't. And I was like, music stand, violin, this Suzuki book. Like, do not forget. Because I was like, that's the whole point of this. I needed something to do. Yeah. And then I said, don't forget the mute.
Like, that was Make sure the mute's in there because there's absolutely no way. My bedrest room was in the hallway. It's it was an old hospital, so they didn't have like very good accommodations for people on bedrest. So I was on bedrest in one room and across the hallway and by me there were ladies in labor having their babies, like right by me.
So I heard it all and they probably heard me playing.
Julia: I'm sure they were like, please distract me from.
Carly: I know they're probably like, is that like Yeah, they were probably so confused if they heard violin when they were in labor. But yeah, so the mute was a must. There was no way I could play and I even got kind of nervous.
I was like, I remember asking you like, is a metal mute like any, any quieter than a rubber one? And I actually Amazoned a metal one to my hospital room. Wow. In the meantime, I was like, I don't know, I need everything that is, cause I was kind of like, still really fresh playing. , I started maybe in June or July and that was September, end of August, September.
So it was like, it wasn't sounding good. But people saw the violin in my room and they were like, wow, you play. And I was kind of like, ah, like, but I think it, it struck people like, Hey, if you just are learning, how are you already so attached to it that you want it with you?
There were nurses that would come in and be like, play something! And I'd be like, oh, embarrassing, sure. Like, I literally could play like three things. I'm like, well, do you want Twinkle Twinkle or Oh Come Little Children? And like, the lady that brought me my lunch.
Would want to chat violin and like it was just funny how it became there at the hospital The violin was almost what they knew me by like the lady on bedrest that has her violin with and it was really fun like in a way to like have that connection with people and people are like Super interested in it and I actually didn't even know that it was such a widespread interest
Julia: That's so remarkable because I think most people would have chosen not to bring it and come back to it after.
And you know, with just all of the emotions of being in any situation where you're in the hospital for an extended amount of time, I completely understand that that's such a personal thing, but I think it was amazing that you were able to just get over the fact that you were a fresh beginner.
And had to play in front of strangers that are constantly coming in and out , going to ask you questions and to play in front of them. You know, just kind of leave that all at the door and you're like, I'm doing this for me because I need something to do. And you stuck with it and we made it work.
Your wi fi wasn't even good enough for us to continue doing live lessons, so we would meet asynchronously where I'd assign you essentially things to work on and then you'd send me videos and then I would record a video back and we just kind of did it in that way for for those weeks until You had your baby and then we took, then I had my baby.
So we took a little, a little break from that, but, , how was then the transition coming back when you were able to, you know, I, things were crazy for you. I can imagine in those early months with a premature baby and then coming back home, adjusting to life as a mother of four. , how were you able to start violin back up again?
Carly: That actually worked out perfect for us because I didn't even have to tell you the amount of break I needed because you had your baby at the same time. So I was like, when she's ready to teach, I'll probably be ready to play. And I did play it here and there, , after baby, even before we start up lessons again, and didn't just sit there.
But I think what role it plays in my life where like, If this was something I was going to school for or something like more like the route you took where it's something that plays like a professional role in your life, but for me it's such a hobby that this is like what I run to. , when I don't want to do my other work, I do this, but when it's not my work, so. At the end of the day, if I meet back up with you and I didn't practice, I just have decided I'm fine with that. If I'm not, if I didn't touch it, that's fine.
Carly: So I have no pressure on playing it. And I think that actually helps me play it more is because there is no pressure. It's something I want to do. And then if I don't want to pick it up, I just don't.
Julia: In the long run, it's not making a difference in the amount of progress you make, like say over the course of the year.
And I've found at least with the The students that I work with, the people that tend to contact me, is there is no, lack of discipline when it comes to practicing. Whereas, when you work with kids, you have to be there, as you probably know, with your little ones and make sure that they practice and like it's, it almost becomes a chore and that's certainly how it was for me.
Growing up, and what I love about working with adults is that pressure is all already there, but just from, from the student. And so on my end, I think it's important to give people more so encouraged space, because as you said, it's a hobby. And for a lot of people, it's a very serious hobby. And, , people tend to feel really guilty when they don't have time or feel like they're wasting time.
But realistically, and I know that someone listening needs to hear this right now, there are going to be weeks. And sometimes longer than that, there are going to be sometimes months where you are just kind of maintaining and you're like, okay, I'm just going to have my lesson and maybe I'm picking it up here or there.
And I just don't have the time or honestly the energy that I, that I need to feel like I'm making progress. But as long as you stick with it and you show up for your lessons and maybe you're practicing, even if it's just like 10 minutes a week, it doesn't matter. You're not losing anything, there's going to be a time where you're ready to, to come back into it. For you, I think it's more of a time thing. I imagine there's, you know, when you're traveling or when there's things to do where you just can't get to it, but you always show up and then you're always right back into it as soon as you have the time.
Carly: And I think I kind of focus on like, hey, if I'm not,, I don't want to practice and be like, Okay, I have to get way better at this before my next lesson or like really drill it in. I try to keep the pressure off and like a lot of times instead of practicing I'm just trying to like maintain the joy in the instrument. I never want to be in the scenario where I'm oh I'm so burnt out of that and I don't feel like it I don't want to quit so then I'll take breaks and when I'm not practicing, if I'm not feeling like practicing, a lot of times I'll just listen to violin music and kind of, connect to why I started, why I like it.
And then it helps me be more inspired next time to practice. I think it's a lot of like, maintaining like your actual enjoyment of it is more important than just practicing to get better enough so you can enjoy it later, if that makes sense.
Julia: Oh, absolutely. And, I really want to highlight that because it's such great advice. The most important thing is , you never want to feel like you're getting behind on a hobby, you know, and that's one of the great advantages of starting as an adult is, you know yourself, and the fact that you're able to take a step back and just know what those boundaries are instead of just trying to tick off things from a list or time yourself and try to get that time in which are all very concrete things.
It's easy to measure those things and I think we get very hung up on it but at the end of the day you need to think long term because as you were saying 10 years from now that's not going to make a difference. What is going to make a difference though is, if you get burnt out and you stop and you have to take three years off, that will make a difference.
Carly: Yeah, it kind of reminds me , my husband likes to play hockey. But he says as soon as he goes And he's playing hockey and he's getting frustrated, like if they're not doing well or something. He's like, this is just a pick up game, like I can just go home. He's like, I play for fun, so if I'm getting frustrated, I didn't come here to be frustrated.
So I kind of think of it the same way if I'm practicing, and it's just like, I'm almost getting frustrated hearing, hearing the sounds I'm making. I'm like, I don't come to the violin to be frustrated. I come to like, relieve my other frustrations. So it's like, if it's starting to be like that, I just know how to put it down for then, and then pick it up.
Sometimes it only takes like an hour later after I am frustrated and put it down that I actually want to try again. And just that fresh start, knowing when to quit, and , to pick it up when you feel inspired, is so huge for me.
Julia: , that is something that took me 10 years, probably more, 15 years to figure out, so.
As an adult, you generally kind of know these things from other areas, whereas when I was growing up, I was figuring this all out on violin, which is why, My relationship with the instrument is very different from a lot of adults that are learning or starting , as purely a hobby. for me, as I'm sure with, for you, for other activities that maybe you did growing up , there's a more complicated relationship because I didn't know when to stop when I was. Younger, you know, you just kind of, push through and had I taken more space as you did, I'm sure that I wouldn't be struggling with that later on. that's just fantastic advice. And I hope that someone relates to that and that it maybe gives permission to those of you who feel like, oh, I really need to take space for a little bit. And it's sometimes, it's not an hour. Sometimes it can be three months, you know, you just need to like, breathe a bit.
Remember why you enjoyed. Playing in the first place and then at some point you will start to feel ready to come back to it. That's something I really relate to, so it's not just beginners.
Carly: Yeah, like I think I learned the hard way that's like, I don't need to take a violin on vacation anymore. I always think like, I Oh, it's gonna be so relaxing.
I can take it and have fun on my vacation, but like our vacations It's like not a chance It just I bring the whole thing and I have to take it inside make sure it doesn't like dry out or get too cold Or whatever and then it just never gets open and then I take it home
Julia: Sometimes we need that to be fresh, you know, just it's the vacation is also to be to get inspired again to play.
I don't bring my instrument on vacation. I mean, again, it's different for me because it's also work, but I encourage my students, unless you are really like doing a staycation, you're like, I finally have time to practice. Read your book on the beach without, you know, come back, listen to some music at the airport and you'll be, you'll be excited to come back to it.
/ kind of switching gears here, you know, I have to ask, how the heck are you able to practice with four little kids? How old are they, first of all, and, and just like, how do you do it?
Julia: What's your secret?
Carly: Okay, I, I have a one year old, a three year old, a five year old, and a seven year old. And I homeschool the five and seven preschool in first grade. So it's super busy at my house. It's super loud. In a way with how loud my house is normally the violin fits right in. It's not a quiet house to begin with. I would say the biggest leap in my practicing was mounting the violin, which I know you've said before, but it's huge. I'm actually getting on a wall. Yep. Yeah. I bought like a string swing where it just hangs right down there with the bow. And that is such a game changer for just picking it up and playing.
And then same thing with my stand. The stand's always out. Permanent fixture in my house. And I'm actually even getting extra. I got another mount because, because the mount originally I put in my bedroom and then I like to play out where everyone else is. Yep. And then my husband was getting annoyed because I would play it out where everyone else is and then just like stick it on the kitchen table and leave it there.
He's like, get another one so you have multiple places to just put that thing out of reach of the children. But that's a huge thing is to make it like really easy, set myself up for success. Like I can just grab it whenever, put it down. Whenever. Because when it was in the case, it felt like if you go through like the hassle of like taking that out, then it seems like you should be practicing for a longer time.
But when it's on the wall, it's like I can pick it up, practice for 30 seconds and put it back if someone, you know, needs a diaper change or is hungry or something. Or if they're just not in the mood for mom to practice. That's probably the biggest hurdle for me with the kids. is that sometimes they don't want to hear it and they want me to read a book instead.
So I'm like, okay, I guess I can't practice right this second. But I've kind of like built it into our routine too since I practice enough where it's not a huge surprise to the kids. When we've like gotten our school done and played a game and now it's like, hey, mom's going to practice. I usually kind of just announce I'm going to practice and they're like, oh, okay.
Then they go, they automatically kind of just go find their thing to do. And sometimes one of my kids will just come sit and sing with it. You know, I practice the piece we're working on enough when my kids can just like hum along. and shout when I mess it up.
Julia: //I'm sure nothing gets past them. But you know, Carly, what a gift to give to your children that they, first of all, see you doing something for yourself and also what discipline looks like, what it is like to learn a skill and to practice it regularly. And, you know, outside of what that practice time does for yourself, I think it's just, you know, it's for whatever, whether they pursue music or any other activity, that they're going to know exactly what.
needs to go into it, you know, just working hard and showing up and that's just, you know, on top of, on top of what it is for you. I think it's just amazing that your kids get to see you do that.
Carly: Yeah, I've kind of thought about, I heard this, um, parenting saying once, more is caught than taught. And it's kind of a, it's a kind of a scary one because if you're like on your phone a lot they learn to be on the phone a lot or you know, things like that.
Like if you have like a lot of unhealthy habits or even like a foul mouth or something, the kids pick up on it right away. Like it doesn't help to just say be kind. or invite people to play with you at the park. It's like they have to see mom talk to strangers at the park and like be kind to others. So I've kind of thought that in the scope of violin, I kind of feel like it's good for them to maybe see me pursuing something that's for me because the majority of my life right now on this stage is serving others.
So I think it's good for them to be like You can't pour from an empty cup, you know, mom needs her own stuff so that I can then do stuff for everyone else. And then also, like, just the routine of starting something that I had no idea anything about. It was almost like, um, intimidating to start because I knew I wasn't going to be good because you're not good when you don't know anything going in.
And I didn't, um, maybe even them just seeing progress, like, mom was bad at this at first, And we all sat through it. I'm sure they'll tell you that. Yeah, and then over time, it's like, shaping into something that's listenable, and then over time, we'll get better. But the whole time, it's like, maybe, I hope that they're learning that you can jump into something and expect to not be good, and keep at it to get better, instead of like, being disappointed because you're not good right away.
And then, um, kind of ties in with homeschooling because I'm teaching kids to read right now. And they're pretty frustrated that they can't just read. Like that it's, that there's all these rules and like, you know, when there's a C E at the end of the word, it makes us sound and a G E makes G. And my kids are like, well, that's a J sound.
And that's an S sound. Like that doesn't make sense. And they get super frustrated. And I'm like, Hey, if you just keep doing this, it's You're never gonna have to think about all these rules, like they'll come more naturally because you've just read a lot. And I have one kid that's getting pretty fluent with her reading and then my son just starting is like, how could she read so well?
And I'm like, because she's been doing this. She's been doing it every day, doing her stuff. So it's kind of like, I think it even ties into their lives now, is that, just that lesson, to work at it and over time it gets easier. Wow,
Julia: yeah, for sure, and just not being, not being afraid of being a beginner and just really embracing that stage no matter what age you are as well, I think.
And also you're giving them the love of music, like they're, they're just, they just are going to feel comfortable. Good in that environment. 'cause they're always gonna relate violent. They're older, you know? So I think that's so sweet. Yeah. And I'll, I'll share a little anecdote from what happened with, in our place.
I think I did in the, in the last episode too, but it's, it's worth repeating 'cause um, you know, my, we have a little like play group at the library with all the, all the other one year olds of. Where I live and my husband brought his guitar and he was, you know, playing for all the kids and they were all sitting and just like, except for ours, of course, who was just like playing with.
a shoe, or just whatever, because she's like, this is normal. Like, I don't care. And I just, I don't know, my heart melted because I'm like that, you know, music is part of her life. She's not, you know, it's so normal to her. And that's something that's really important to me to pass on. It's not, you know, we, I don't know if we're going to put her in violin for sure.
We'll, we'll put her in some music lessons when she's older, but it's not something we're going to overly push, even though we studied. to a high level. Um, but I want her to have that love and that interest for, for the arts in general. But of course, music, since we're, we're musicians, my husband and I, but I think that you're, you're giving them a very similar thing just by playing it all the time and having it as a, just a regular part, just like reading or just like playing.
It's like, Oh, there's music too.
Carly: Yeah. Yeah. Another thing about being an adult beginner is my kids kind of cheer me on. I'm like, Good job, mom, that was better than last time. Oh, sweet. And then, my husband, for his 30th, I bought him a piano, cause he was like, he was ready. I think he was kind of inspired, he's like, well, he wants to learn piano then.
So he's working on that, and it's just so cute how they're like, dad, play that one song again, you know? Like, they're just so into his progress and my progress that it's like, they seriously are like, kids are mom's number one fan. So it's kind of fun to like have my own little, my little entourage that wants me to do better.
Julia: Oh, I can't wait for my daughter to be at the age where she starts to like, well, she's definitely starting to understand what's going on, but just when she can actually communicate and do all that. I know it's going to get here soon, but that's so cool.
Carly: Yeah, I have kind of involved my kids in practice sometimes.
Um, I want to say it was when we were doing the Elgar piece that you were teaching me dynamics. So then I would play it and I tell the kids like crouch down when mom gets quieter and like jump up when I'm louder Because when I play it by myself, I it's so loud in your ear Anyway that it's hard to tell if anyone else can tell that I'm trying to be quieter and it was like such a rowdy game for them And then I had a two year old at the time that just did not get the game.
So he was just jumping around screaming the whole time and they were just laughing at him, but yeah, it was actually helpful for me to see that they can hear the difference. And then they, they actually made me practice that dynamics thing a lot because they were like, let's play that game again. Oh, I thought I was like, oh, I should do more things like that.
And then.
And then we've done like, my kids like to do little shows, like talent shows and stuff. So I was like, let's do a talent show. So then I would play songs. And then my daughter has a little violin, and she can play just a couple things. She doesn't play it that often, but then she would do a couple things and sing, and then my boys would just do like stuffed animal show and tell.
And it was just so cute, like, to do these little things with them to involve them. Because I, even though it's for myself, I don't want it to be like, where they're not allowed to participate, you know? Yeah. Or it's like, oh, that's what mom does when she's ignoring us or something. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's really helpful like for them for it to not be like something that mom like shuts them out and does but Something that I'm doing in the living room with them there and sometimes they're more involved
Julia: I'm sure it makes it so much more fun for you, too And you know, there's I also understand the need for if some people With kids approach it differently.
And it's like, this is my time where I don't want my kids around. And just like, you know, me and I actually do a little bit of, of both. Like sometimes I do want to just concentrate on things by myself, but I think it's so wonderful to have, as we were saying, the, um, you know, the family involved and just make that part of your routine and it just must be.
It just must add a whole other layer of joy and, uh, and excitement when they're getting involved like that and, um, you know, making up those creative games. And as you said, it's, it's helping you too to see, like, if they can hear it, then you know it's, it's happening, right? Yeah, for sure. That's awesome. So as far as Learning the instrument in itself.
What have you found to be the most challenging, let's say technique wise or, um, anything like that? And have you found anything that's been really helpful in learning? overcoming that or making progress towards it.
Carly: Yeah, I have a few things. There's a lot of challenging things, I'm sure, and everyone listening knows, like, all the challenging things. But for me, right now, it's keeping my bow straight. Drives me crazy. And just maybe just the awareness of where I am on the bow is really hard right now, like to have that full scope, like I just can't wait until the day where that is just built into my instinct, like to kind of know.
It will be, it
Julia: will be, you're on the path for it. But
Carly: for that it's just um, I think a lot of it is just the scales, like as boring as I think scales are, the scales and all the variations like help a lot with that, and like just the repetitive in the mirror staring at my bow. Like, honestly, I don't do that that much because it's also, like, kind of infuriating.
Julia: Little and often. You gotta do it in small groups, but all the time. And it gets better.
Carly: Yeah, those are, like, when I pick it up for a minute, it's like, I'll do that really fast, and then it's like, hey, I ate my vegetables for the day, you know? That's the beauty of it being mounted is that's not even part of my, like, if I get a big chunk of practice, I don't do that during that time.
It's just like mid morning and the kids went outside or something, I'm like, well, I should pick this up and just look in the mirror for a little bit and get that going. And then I think the other big challenge for me is not really like a technique thing, but I think it's almost more important is like playing in front of people.
You're playing in front of people, or I should say my playing in front of people, is drastically different than when I'm alone in, like, the quality of sound. Yeah. It's like, wow, you really slice them when there's other people around. Even during our lessons, it's like, wow, I've played that, like, so many times and it sounded so much better and more even.
But I'm actually thankful that you get the rougher sound from me, so then it's actually I can work on that. Kind of like the nerves. I think the the nerves really snuck up on me, especially during our lessons I remember the first time my bow was shaking and I had no idea why I was shaking because I didn't feel nervous But my body felt nervous.
Yeah, it's not like in my head. I kind of like knew I wasn't nervous. It's like But I was like, wow, I think I've heard of people's bows shaking when they're nervous, but when mine started, I was like, what? I didn't even know I was nervous until it was like, really falling apart in my playing.
Julia: Yeah, I think that per well, performance is a completely different skill set from violin, and depending on your line of work or what you do in life.
Some people have a lot of public speaking experience where they're used to performing on something other than violin and it is every time surprising with just kind of what your body does and it's so difficult, especially when since we do have to control the bow to play like slow passages in front of other people.
And that includes lessons. Like I've been nervous for lessons. I was nervous for lessons all the time because you just worked on something really hard all week and you want to show it to someone. And even if you're, you're comfortable with your teacher, like I'm not very scary or intimidating, I don't think, but for sure people are nervous all the time.
And it, I think every single person listening who is working with a teacher can react to that. Can relate to your lessons just not sounding as good as you do. Like in real life or the rest of your, your practice week. And I hear that at least, you know, probably once a day with my, with my students, just like, Oh, that was a lot better yesterday.
But, you know, I have, I have a built in, like, I understand how I can still tell what you've worked on, what you haven't worked on and how many things are just kind of nerve related. And how many of them are like, Oh, we need to figure this passage out. Cause you know, this thing isn't aligned or like you're not in the right part of the bow here, but the more you do it, the more comfortable you get.
And I think it would be really cool for you to have playing opportunities. You're getting to the level now where you, you definitely have things that you could perform and play. Um, so that's, yeah, we should talk about that in, in lessons
Carly: building. Yeah. It's been on my to do list forever, but it's like so easy to procrastinate that.
Oh yeah, I was talking about this yesterday,
Julia: actually.
Carly: Yeah. Well, I was listening to one of your podcasts where it was all about playing, um, like finding other people that like play piano or any other instrument and like getting together and making music even when you're a beginner. And I, the whole time, and then you were like, yeah, and if you might feel like you don't know anyone, and I actually know so many people that play piano, like pretty well, and I'm close enough to them to ask.
Or to, that they would want to play with me, but I'm just like putting it off. I'm like, oh, it's hard to like think of yourself as good enough for it, especially with like, like I know I'm way more of a beginner than them, but I also know that that's kind of an advantage for me to like be able to play with people that totally are way above my level.
where I am in their instrument, that they can actually, like, help me a lot. So, especially piano. It's in the works.
Julia: Yeah, for sure. I definitely highly encourage you to do that once you're, you know, once you're, you feel, it's a good summer project, something, but it doesn't have to be a performance, just someone to practice with you.
And it's something you can prepare for too. Um, there are things if there, it's a learning curve to play with. another human being, but it is so fun. That is the number one reason. Yes, it's great for your intonation. It's great for timing. It's great for this and that, but it's mostly like you get to connect with another human and make music in a way that's much more interesting because especially with the violin, yes, we can play chords, we can harmonize, things like that, melodic instrument.
So, um, Most repertoire is written for violin and accompaniment. So if you are, if you never get the chance to do that or to pursue that, you're missing a fundamental part of, of playing. So, you know, even pulling out what I would suggest, and also, you know, for anyone who's in this situation, if you've never played with someone before and you're feeling like, For instance, playing with a pianist, just to play something that's like half of what you think you can play.
Um, you know, so even just pulling out the Elgar that you did way, way, way back when that you feel super comfortable with, and just seeing how that feels with piano, because even then you'll have little timing things to work on, or maybe not. Actually, I think you'd You'd be completely fine even playing what you're working on right now with piano, um, just because you've played with accompaniment recordings and just knowing how you play, I think for you just go right into it.
But, um, it's, it's like a safe place to start and that way you can actually focus more on the ensemble and the music and not just your notes. That's something that I, they used to tell us growing up when we would have orchestra rehearsals, you're here to learn the other people's parts, not your own part, because we would just go and like not practice or prepare and we'd just be there like sight reading when I was in orchestra days.
But in fact it's the opposite, like you're supposed to show up, you know your notes already, and you're just trying to figure out how you, your part fits in with everyone else. So if you're playing something that's really difficult for you, although that can be valuable in other ways, it's, you're, you're going to be too focused on you and not on listening.
So that's my approach when it comes to that. But when you're an adult learner, especially, you have to be very proactive about finding these things. Whereas, you know, with kids, if they're banned in school, or if they're taking lessons, there are so many built in performance opportunities. They're constantly playing with other people, and that's really the thing that is lacking in adult music education, because there's just not that many centralized, um, places, which is very much a shame, but that's just how it is.
Um, and it's not to say the opportunities aren't there. It's just, you have to go out and create them because no one's well, sometimes maybe someone will come and be like, Hey, come play together. But most of the time it's the opposite. You have to go invite people and play with you, which is scary.
Carly: Yeah.
Yeah. I think I'm kind of getting torn, overcoming it. Just something I felt like my timing Was not ready like even maybe a couple months ago or around Christmas time. I wanted I was like, well What if I just did like easy Christmas songs and had someone play Christmas songs. Those are so easy Yeah, I was like I could do that But then I felt like my timing at the time I had hardly played with the metronome because it bugged me It was just like hard for me to really lock in the metronome So I was it's it was hard for me to listen to my playing and the metronome at the same time for some reason You So then I decided, well, maybe I should play it that more.
I kind of like work my way up. Cause I feel like if you're playing with a metronome during your practice. Then when you play with like a piano, it'll be kind of easier just to having more, even playing before you even go in might help a lot for me. So that's kind of where I am now. And I think I'm totally ready to play with someone.
I'm just, you totally are. You have it off, even with the, you know,
Julia: the, the reading, um, B minor concerto right now, that, that would be a really perfect one because it would sound so good with the piano. It would add a whole other layer. You can play with accompaniment as you're preparing for. That's another suggestion that I have, especially, you know, when you get into the more advanced repertoire, it's harder to find accompaniment, but on YouTube there's just so many.
videos of just like the piano part and you can play along and they have like a click track and that way you're not going to be completely caught off guard. So those are things you can do to prepare but also if it's someone that's that's a friend that you don't mind like you know making a silly mistakes in front of, Just, you know, sometimes there's just something to be said about, like, you're going to just go in, see what happens, have a good time, and if they're more advanced than you, which is, as you said, kind of an ideal situation, you're going to just learn by osmosis, by playing with them.
That's why in the, at least the Suzuki philosophy of violin, Um, education that I grew up with and a lot of the things that I've kind of internalized as a teacher myself is you want to have students in mixed level ensembles as much as possible because the, you know, the older ones, when we're talking of children, the older ones that have more experience, they're going to be learn how to teach the younger ones and show by example, which is super beneficial.
And then obviously the younger ones are just copying and watching. And, um, we'd always have mixed level, like literally like five year olds and 16 year olds and everything in between in our like violin, um, group classes that I had growing up. And that's just, um, I think that's one of the best things for, for playing and with that goes for other instruments as well.
Yeah, for
Carly: sure. I think it's like. Would be a huge missed opportunity if I didn't get into that. Because I actually am so blessed with so many people that know instruments. I agree. That it's like, how have I not done that yet?
Julia: I'm gonna, I'm not gonna bug you about that now. I
Carly: know it was one sided because your podcast that you did on that exact topic was calling me out like every single time.
And then also that um, I listened to one of those student stories You'll remember who it is. The one that was like a total beginner and just jumped into playing with other people. Insane. I was like, wow. I'm like, what I want, part of me was like, I want to hear what she sounded like when she started and compare it to what I sound like now.
Cause I'm like, how could you be such a fresh beginner and actually play with others? Yeah,
Julia: she was fresh beginner. I will say she was like 19. So I think there was just like a, I don't care. We're just trying to hear to like. Have fun and mess around and that's exactly what she did and it led to such cool opportunities for her and a lot of growth from just, you know, listening from the get go instead of trying to, you know, as adults and especially the kind of personalities that are drawn to this instrument are, I think, chronic overthinkers.
I'm certainly like that, like I will try to prepare and plan and think and think and think before actually just doing something and with Playing with others like you're never going to be feeling completely ready at a certain point. You just need to go into it and the earlier you're able to do that the easier it's going to get and by the time you start to have like the you know quote unquote level that you feel like is appropriate for playing with people you're already going to have all those ensemble skills.
as well and it can only help you and plus ideally you're not just going to play with someone once you're like everyone's scared about the first time but you know that hopefully that's going to be something that's ongoing and you can just do more and more as you progress so it's just like kind of break yeah and get used
Carly: to it i also kind of think like it could be where i'm at like like you said she was 19 so she's probably just like Such a free spirit, like game for
Julia: whatever.
100%. That's exactly how it is.
Carly: And I kind of like to jump into things that I don't know much about and just see where it goes. Yeah. But kind of more privately, like. I don't just tell everybody that I'm learning violin, because I'm like, eh, I don't know. I understand. Because I do feel kind of random. Like, yeah, just mom of four kids just decided to do something really out of the box.
Like, I feel kind of, like I don't actually have any other mom friends that just pick up something. Like, I don't know, that's this big of a commitment. I don't really know how to phrase this. Like, like they do plenty of cool stuff, but a lot of it is from like, they already knew how to do it. Yeah. Like big crocheters and big sewers and they might play piano, but they had piano lessons, but I feel like this decision to learn violin to me didn't seem so random, like leading up to it.
But then in hindsight, I'm like, this is very random that I'm doing this. I don't know that many other people that are just doing this. So it's like, maybe stacked onto being a beginner is also being kind of like, kind of a random demographic, I felt like. Yes, it is. Like, are people just gonna be, like, scratching their head when I'm like, yeah, no, I'm just a beginner.
Violinists wanna play with me? They're like, since when? I don't know why. I think they'll think it's awesome.
Julia: But, you know, we were talking about this earlier, from kind of my perspective working with adults, kind of really just all across the globe, I get college students, I get retirees and everything in between, but the actual combination of what you said, being in this season of life, having young children, and starting for the first time.
quite unusual. I do have moms of young children, not very many, but they're mostly, I would say actually in this time, all, they all already play in their life. I need something for me. I'm, I'm ready to get back into this. Um, so I don't know. I just have so much respect for that, especially as a mom of a small child as well.
I wouldn't be able to do it, I don't think. Um, and it just takes so much discipline and I don't know, it just takes, you know what I mean, like it just takes a lot of, of care and just want, like passion. That's the word I'm looking for. It takes passion, really.
Carly: Yeah, I would encourage anyone, like if you ever have an interest for something, you might as well just dive right in.
Yeah. Because it's like, most people live for quite a long time. Yeah. So for me, I'm even shocked that I was like 26 and feeling like, it was too late to start something. That's so sad that like adults would feel like that. And they really, yeah, really, it's like, like, for hobbies, you're not really competing.
Like, I'm not, I'm not like competing with seven year olds that started when they were three, you know, like, I'm just kind of enjoying it for myself. Yeah. And, and I actually think like, before I started, I would have thought, Oh, somebody that. Just decided to play violin and really committed to it. That's actually really cool.
But now that it's me. I'm like this feels kind of funny Well, I think you're not as confident when it's you but like I do see that like anyone picking up a new hobby It's cool whether you're good at it or not, and I feel the same way with, like, all my other hobbies, or my husband actually is, like, he's, like, the best role model for picking up random hobbies.
Because he sees someone do something, and he's like, that's cool, I'm doing that tomorrow, and he just hacks at it till, but he's actually just really gifted, so I'm like, he's the guy that's just good at it. I feel like he's good at things. The first time he does it, but still, like, just having that openness to just go for something.
The second you're interested, and it doesn't really matter, I kind of think anybody can do anything. Just not, not an expert level the first time, you know. So it's kind of good to remember.
Julia: Yeah, it's just a time thing, like how many hours by, they will add up. And I think as parents, you think about time a little differently, and like for you, this time next year, when you're, your baby's two, uh, you know, which is gonna fly back, fly by, You're not going to be thinking about straight bow anymore.
It's just going to be working. And when your oldest is going into middle school, like you're going to be playing hard music, the kind of thing that, you know, you couldn't really imagine yourself being able to play when you started. And I always say that time is going to go by anyways, and knock on wood, like you're going to be around 10 years from now.
And if you start now, you're going to be able to have all of the things that you can't really imagine yourself doing as a beginner, but you just need to get started no matter, and you're, you're such a good example of like, no matter what stage you are in life, like, this is probably the busiest that you're, you know, unless you have more kids, then you'll probably be even busier, but it's just, you know, it's maybe not like, quote unquote, the ideal time by those metrics, but it is because.
You know, you're gonna have more time eventually, and now you, and when, when you do, you're not gonna be a beginner. You're gonna be able to play all sorts of things, and all you, you're gonna just add a little bit of fuel to the fire, and you'll be off on
Carly: your way. Yeah, and there's so much good music out there that I already like to listen to, and it's like, the more I play, the more, like, different pieces I'll get to, like, personally engage with, which I think is really cool.
Like, even what we're playing now, the reading, it's like, I actually like to listen to that one, and I can play it, and I like to listen to it. Which was not the case for Twinkle Twinkle, you know? Especially the way I played that one. But it was like, you know, the more I played, the more I'm like This is actually really good music that I'm playing.
Not to say that the beginning, the very beginning wasn't good music, but You're allowed to say it. You're allowed to say it. It's like I don't, I don't know who wrote Twinkle Twinkle, but I don't want to just diss them, you know? It's alright.
Julia: A lot of the folk songs you get, you know, it's not better than just playing exercises, but I mean, that's what's hard about violin is it takes, honestly, about a year before you're actually playing stuff that you're like, I like this.
I sound good. Whereas And it's not to say that, that the two, that piano is not more difficult than violin. They're just very different. But I think that when you start piano, you can sit down, make some notes from the get go and sound fine. Maybe things that you're playing are, are, are more simple than what you'd want, but you don't have to worry about intonation for one or holding the bow.
So with violin, it's just the, the beginning learning curve is, Much greater to, you know, so if you, if you're able to stick with it and you're finally starting to get into these more interesting pieces as you are, it really only gets more fun from there. It's just like all of your patience, you're really just sowing seeds and now you're like starting to see things sprout and you can kind of imagine like, oh my gosh, this is going to be a tree one day.
And that's, you know, that's so fun. That's so cool.
Carly: Yeah, like the instruments are not even like comparable. Like my husband just, Buying a beginner book from the thrift store and playing the piano. Like, the chords happen day one. Yep, you know, and I'm like, wow, that sounds actually really good. But like, the same concept, chords on the violin, I don't even know how many years I have to play to get to that.
But like, it's, it's like, it's like, far from day one, you know. But then, what I like about violin is that it seems like, The things that come later. I mean piano has its own things that come later that are really cool But like something I love is the vibrato the sound of vibrato Yeah I'm like the chords on the violin and I kind of like that it's like violin is like takes the place of like voice and a lot of absolutely ways But it's like a voice with like such a big range, like really high, but like not many voices can sing really high and like sing so clear.
So it's kind of like, or sometimes pieces I listened to the violin is really high, but it's not like hurting my ears. It's almost like violin can get away with playing really high and still sound good. Yeah. I don't know. It's like, It is pretty amazing that I went from like, I wasn't even really into music that much at the time that I found this, and then just letting it grow in its own way.
And it's like, no, I'm really into classical music and like composers and stuff. When I remember kids when I was younger, being interested in this stuff, and I was like, that is not my thing. That's the different stages of life, you can kind of like, see the beauty in different things and kind of be. Like, interests can change drastically as, as you age and like, see more of things and see things from different perspectives.
So that's the thing about adult beginners and anything, it's like you're not gonna be interested in the same thing when you're little. as when you're older necessarily. Like there's more things to get into as you get older.
Julia: And it can go a lot quicker too because you're the one that's kind of designing your own curriculum.
You can decide to listen to as much as you want, you can go to concerts, like there's so many things that you're, As a kid you have to rely on, you know, hopefully your parents are supportive and bring you to things if they can, um, when you're, when you're into music. But as an adult you have complete control over that trajectory and how much you want to pursue the interest in it.
You know, with YouTube nowadays there's just so many things you can learn on your own, you don't have to wait for it to, you know, You know, be a class that's at school, you can learn music theory, you can learn about music history, and it's just like really your, the world is your oyster when it comes to classical music and music in general when you're learning as an adult.
So it's a very exciting place to be. There are certainly challenges that adults have that kids don't have, you know, especially physical playing and um, but I think that there are just as many advantages on the other side. And it can lead to it just being such an enjoyable and special part of your life as it has for you.
And I know as it has for a lot of people who pick up the violin with zero musical experience, which I think is crazy, by the way, I think it's awesome.
Carly: Yeah, I kind of was, it's a little bit, when I started not knowing how to read music, I was like, wow, this is a major disadvantage. Like, I feel like people probably jump into it knowing what all this stuff on the paper means.
And even like. Even like the, when we first started, the fingerings were written above the notes. And I didn't connect that those numbers were the fingerings. So I was just memorizing all that until you were like, yeah, so are you doing it with the fingerings? And I was like, oh, what fingerings? What does that mean?
But it was like, I actually liked the way I learned. Kind of more by ear. And then adding it in later. And one day, the music reading kind of just clicked for me. It didn't even take that much work. So I actually like that better than really having to sit and study, you know? Like I didn't have to put so much effort into that part.
That's
Julia: exactly what I That's very relatable, I think, to a lot of people. The music reading, especially if it's something that you kind of thought was hard as a kid, and you're like, oh, I can't do that. It's like, either you can or you can't. It's really not as hard as learning to read when you're a kid. As I say, in violin, there's really, as a beginner, only 16 notes that you need to know, and it's so much more important to be able to play with good technique and develop good listening skills as you have.
Exactly. As you said, at some point it just kind of clicks and it's not really a big deal. And it goes pretty quickly once you, like, you can learn to read music in a weekend, no problem. You just sit, flash cards and it's done. Getting used to it. Playing takes a little bit longer, but, um, the foundation I think is a lot more important to me, at least in my philosophy.
Carly: Yeah. And it's just like so interesting how it can just click without, I feel like it's like. Something that was, I almost was like, I don't even want to learn because that music reading thing never made sense. Yeah. To me, and I don't know how people remember things like that. And also like the lack of frets.
I was like, I don't know how anyone is gonna know where to put their fingers when. It must take an absolute genius to know. And then like how quickly those stickers came off for me was like, amazing to me. Like the, where you put your fingers. Yeah. I thought it would have been years of having to use those and now they're on my daughters and I try to like kind of use them and it actually messes me up to look at those stickers.
Like I have to not look at it and put my fingers where I think they should go and it works a lot better than trying to figure out the stickers. It's just like the whole process is so interesting. Because things I thought were hard actually aren't that hard and things that weren't on my radar like keeping the bow straight That seemed like it would actually be a lot easier than it is So it's like you really don't know what you're getting into but the things that almost stopped me from wanting to try Are not the things that are hard.
It's like a different set of things that like proved to be more challenging from like from the inside than on the outside looking in.
Julia: Totally. Yeah, then the farther in you go, it's very, you're going to be very quick to then forget the things that were really hard for you, which is why I like recording so much.
Like you have And what's great with you two is like whenever we do asynchronous lessons, generally you'll send it to me and then you'll text me like, I know that I'm doing this at this measure and that in that measure and this and that. I'm like, you, you already know, you already know. So let's talk about how you make my job so easy, which is I think one of the things that makes you so successful learning this instrument and how you're, you're able to pick it up so fast is that you really, I mean, you're teaching all day, you're literally homeschooling your kids and you're able to apply that same analytical approach with your playing.
And not from a place of judgment. You're able to stay removed from it and just observe like I'm doing this, it's causing that. And then together we can figure out what the solution is. And you'll find that the more you do it, you're going to start to also know those solutions as well.
And then, we'll be talking about things that are, um, you know, completely different to now, but that's, that's what is so fun to work with you is that you just already have that teaching mindset and you're able , to use that in your own progress.
And that is it for my discussion with Carly. I hope you enjoyed this episode. And I love to hear from any fellow parents. It's really a small percentage of my studio. A lot of the times. . I find a lot of my students either don't have kids or their kids are a little bit older, certainly out of toddlerhood. If you like Carly have been able to make it work. I had. Be interested in hearing from you. You can email me at violin class product, gmail.com. And otherwise I will catch you guys in the next episode in two weeks. Thank you for listening.